The Millennium: 1,000 Year reign? Fact or Biblical Fact?

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9 responses to “The Millennium: 1,000 Year reign? Fact or Biblical Fact?”

1. 

   ytrimble

   September 30, 2021

   They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

   The Millennium is a thousand-year period. This verse declares that Christ will reign for one thousand years.

   So based on this text alone, you propose that all that have perished before are not alive with Christ now in eternity?

   2 Cor 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
   2 Ti 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;
   1 Cor 6:3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!

   And if you interpret a thousand year period literally, how do you interpret Re12?

   A literal woman appearing in the sky? A literal dragon threatening her birthing? A literal eagle carrying her away? A literal flood coming after her in the wilderness?

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   1. 

      Doug Drake

      October 3, 2021

      And I will return the favor and give you questions, passages, and theological debates to ponder also…Y.Trimble.
      What did Peter mean when he seemed to refer to Paul’s reference when Jesus descended and spoke to dead spirits? Can they be dead and yet speak and hear and react. But what does it mean to be dead? Hmmm. Can the scripture use allegories, types, signs, symbols, and still have facts and truth that we can trust? Or are we left to our own opinions as to the meaning of God’s infallible Word?
      In Gen. 3:15 we are given one of the first “signs”. A woman will bring forth a seed and crush a snake’s head. A real woman and one of her seed would come forth. And a snake’s head would be crushed. But they were signs and symbols and at the same time truth and factual.

      Theologians have wrestled with these truths.

      Verse 19. – By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; rather, in which (εν ω΅ι). The Lord was no longer in the flesh; the component parts of his human nature were separated by death; his flesh lay in the grave. As he had gone about doing good in the flesh, so now he went in the spirit – in his holy human spirit. He went. The Greek word (πορευθείς) occurs again in ver. 22, “who is gone into heaven.” It must have the same meaning in both places; in ver. 22 it asserts a change of locality; it must do the like here. There it is used of the ascent into heaven; it can scarcely mean here that, without any such change of place, Christ preached, not in his own Person, but through Noah or the apostles. Compare St. Paul’s words in Ephesians 4:9 (the Epistle which seems to have been so much in St. Peter’s thoughts), “Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?” And preached (ἐκήρυξεν). It is the word constantly used of the Lord from the time when “Jesus began to preach (κηρύσσειν), and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17). Then, himself in our human flesh, he preached to men living in the flesh – to a few of his own age and country. Now the range of his preaching was extended; himself in the spirit, he preached to spirits: “Πνεύματι πνεύμασι; spiritu, spiritibus.” says Bengel; “congruens sermo.” He preached also to the spirits; not only once to living men, but now also to spirits, even to them. The καί calls for attention; it implies a new and additional fact; it emphasizes the substantive (καὶ τοῖς πνεύμασιν). The preaching and the condition of the hearers are mentioned together; they were spirits when they heard the preaching. It seems impossible to understand these words of preaching through Noah or the apostles to men who passed afterwards into the state of disembodied spirits. And he preached in the spirit. The words seem to limit the preaching to the time when the Lord’s soul was left in Hades (Acts 2:27). Huther, indeed, says that “as both expressions (θανατωθείς and ζωσοποιηθείς) apply to Christ in his entire Person, consisting of body and soul, what follows must not be conceived as an activity which he exercised in his spirit only, and whilst separated from his body.” But does θανατωθείς apply to body and soul? Men “are not able to kill the soul.” And is it true, as Huther continues, that the first words of this verse are not opposed to the view that Christ preached in his glorified body, “inasmuch as in this body the Lord is no longer ἐν σαρκί, but entirely ἐν πνεύματι? Indeed, we are taught that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; “and that that which “is sown a natural body is raised a spiritual body” (σῶμα πνευματικόν); but Christ himself said of his resurrection-body, “A spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:39). He preached to “the spirits in prison (ἐν φυλακῇ).” (For φυλακή, comp. Revelation 20:7; Matthew 5:25, etc.). It cannot mean the whole realm of the dead, but only that part of Hades in which the souls of the ungodly are reserved unto the day of judgment. Bengel says, “In carcere puniuntur sontes: in custodia servantur, dum experiantur quid facturus sit judex?” But it seems doubtful whether this distinction between φυλακή and δεσμωτήριον can be pressed; in Revelation 20:7 φυλακή is used of the prison of Satan, though, indeed, that prison is not the ἄβυσσος into which he will be cast at the last.

      Revelation 12 speaks of a woman in the sky. It is a sign. Is there such a woman? Yes
      It speaks of a dragon. Is there a dragon, yes, and he goes by many names.

      And what of the saints under the altar who wait for something…but they are told only after more of their brethren die can they hope to see the fulfillment of what they long for. They wait. Lazarus, in Abraham’s bosom, waited.

      Some passages and doctrines are clear, while others take deep and faithful study. Paul, of course was correct, the spirit of a man goes to be with the Lord. But the whole of creation awaits the final and lasting resurrection from the dead

      Revelation 12:1-5. And there appeared a woman clothed with the sun — “It was a well-known custom,” says Lowman, “at the time of this prophecy, to represent the several virtues, and public societies, by the figure of a woman in some peculiar dress, many of which are to be seen in the Roman coins; in particular, Salus, the emblem of security and protection, is represented as a woman standing upon a globe, to represent the safety and security of the world under the emperor’s care. The consecration of the Roman emperors is expressed in their coins by a moon and stars, as in two of Faustina, to express a degree of glory superior to any on earth. Never was any image more expressive of honour and dignity than this in the vision: to stand in the midst of a glory made by the beams of the sun; and upon the moon, as above the low condition of this sublunary world; to wear a crown set with the stars of heaven, as jewels, is something more sublime than any thing whereby antiquity has represented their societies, their virtues, or their deities.” Bishop Newton explains this, and the five following verses, as follows: “St. John resumes his subject from the beginning, and represents the church (Revelation 12:1-2) as a woman, and a mother bearing children unto Christ. She is clothed with the sun, invested with the rays of Jesus Christ, the Sun of righteousness; having the moon — The Jewish new moons and festivals, as well as all sublunary things; under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars — An emblem of her being under the light and guidance of the twelve apostles. And she, being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered — St. Paul hath made use of the same metaphor, and applied it to his preaching and propagating of the gospel, in the midst of tribulation and persecution, Galatians 4:19. But the words of St. John are much stronger, and more emphatically express the pangs and struggles which the church endured from the first publication of the gospel to the time of Constantine the Great, when she was in some measure eased of her pains, and brought forth a deliverer. At the same time, there appeared a great red dragon — Which is the well-known sign or symbol of the devil and Satan, and of his agents and instruments. We find the kings and people of Egypt, who were the great persecutors of the primitive church of Israel, distinguished by this title in Psalm 74:13; Isaiah 51:9; Ezekiel 29:3; and with as much reason and propriety may the people and emperors of Rome, who were the great persecutors of the primitive church of Christ, be called by the same name, as they were actuated by the same principle. For that the Roman empire was here figured, the characters and attributes of the dragon plainly evince. He is a great red dragon; and purple or scarlet was the distinguishing colour of the Roman emperors, consuls, and generals; as it hath been since of the popes and cardinals. His seven heads, as the angel afterward (Revelation 17:9-10) explains the vision, allude to the seven mountains upon which Rome was built, and to the seven forms of government which successively prevailed there. His ten horns typify the ten kingdoms into which the Roman empire was divided; and the seven crowns upon his heads denote, that at this time the imperial power was in Rome, the ‘high city, seated on seven hills, which presides over the whole world,’ as Propertius describes it, book 3. His tail also (Revelation 12:4) drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth — That is, he subjected the third part of the princes and potentates of the earth; and the Roman empire, as we have seen before, is represented as the third part of the world. He stood before the woman, which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born — And the Roman emperors and magistrates kept a jealous, watchful eye, over the Christians from the beginning. As Pharaoh laid snares for the male children of the Hebrews, and Herod for the infant Christ, the son of Mary; so did the Roman dragon for the mystic Christ, the son of the church, that he might destroy him even in his infancy. But notwithstanding the jealousy of the Romans, the gospel was widely diffused and propagated, and the church brought many children unto Christ; and, in time, such as were promoted to the empire. She brought forth a man-child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron, Revelation 12:5 — It was predicted that Christ should rule over the nations, Psalm 2:9; but Christ, who is himself invisible in the heavens, ruleth visibly in Christian magistrates, princes, and emperors. It was therefore promised before, to Christians in general, (Revelation 2:26-27,) He that overcometh, and keepeth my words unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations, &c. But it should seem that Constantine was here particularly intended, for whose life the dragon Galerius laid many snares, but he providentially escaped them all; and notwithstanding all opposition, was caught up unto the throne of God — Was not only secured by the divine protection, but was advanced to the imperial throne, called the throne of God; for, (Romans 13:1,) there is no power but of God, &c. He too ruled all nations with a rod of iron; for he had not only the Romans, who before had persecuted the church, under his dominion, but also subdued the Scythians, Sarmatians, and other barbarous nations, who had never before been subject to the Roman empire; and, as Spanheim informs us, there are still extant medals and coins of his with these inscriptions: The subduer of the barbarous nations; the conqueror of all nations; everywhere a conqueror; and the like. What is added, Revelation 12:6, of the woman’s fleeing into the wilderness for a thousand two hundred and threescore days, is said by way of prolepsis or anticipation. For the war in heaven between Michael and the dragon, and other subsequent events, were prior, in order of time, to the flight of the woman into the wilderness; but before the prophet passes on to a new subject, he gives a general account of what happened to the woman afterward, and enters more into the particulars in their proper place.

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2. 

   ytrimble

   October 9, 2021

   Absurd to think the woman is LITERAL or that she is the BRIDE under the direction of 12 Apostles, she is obviously Israel giving birth to Christ who is sought by Herod, a ruler directed by Satan, the dragon, to kill her offspring as he tried to kill Moses a type of Christ.

   And the wilderness where a flood follows her is a direct reference to Israel in the wilderness and this text: Isaiah 59: 19 So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

   And as she flees on the wings of an eagle, is a direct reference to this text: Isaiah 40:31But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

   You wrote, “As he had gone about doing good in the flesh, so now he went in the spirit – in his holy human spirit. He went.” this is blasphemy! Christ is risen in the FLESH, a glorified body, the first of many.

   Your interpretation of scripture must be from scripture not Roman traditions; scripture interprets scripture is the only hermeneutic allowed in a perspicacious text which Almighty God Himself claims of His written word:

   The Westminster Confession of Faith explains what Protestants believe about the perspicuity of Scripture: “All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all. Yet, those things that are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or another, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them” (1.7).

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   1. 

      Doug Drake

      October 10, 2021

      Well, Y Trimble, your comment is absurd, and your explanation just makes my point exactly.
      Sadly, many people who make comments online are only looking to stir up arguments and throw wild accusations at others.

      And it seems, as I initially expected, that you are of that same mindset.
      And that is precisely why my initial response to you was admittedly lazy. I merely copied and pasted two different responses from biblical scholars. I sprinkled in some comments of my own, but as implied, I expected an accusatory response from you no matter what I said.
      Of course, you went to the always popular assault on those who have different points of view.

      Blasphemy!

      How did that accusation work with the Lord, or with Paul or others? Did it make their arguments any more believable?

      No, we see through the empty words. They had no answer for the truth, so they throw accusations instead. Do we use the empty traditions of the scribes and Pharisees? Are we no better than they were? Apparently, many of us are not. We scream blasphemy if anyone has a different point of view.
      Is that any different than what the Lord truly meant when he instructed Moses regarding the ninth commandment?
      The ninth commandment states, “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” (Ex. 20:16). This commandment is intended to protect one against defamation of character and to uphold an honest man’s reputation. As a part of human nature, lying and bearing false witness are so natural they seem to be the normal thing to do.

      You call it absurd to believe the woman is literal and then go on to prove the point of its literalness.

      In your efforts to find me guilty of blasphemy you seem sadly unaware of the strong connection the Lord makes with literal prophecies and how often those same prophecies are given types, symbols, and allegories throughout the scriptures to keep making the point down through the centuries.
      Eve was literally the first woman and had a literal first seed. She thought she would be the woman and Cain would be the promised seed.
      There is a literal aspect of all prophecies and many times the Lord will add types etc. to help the reader understand.

      Eve and Cain were literal but also types.
      Abraham thought perhaps Sarah would be that woman when she gave birth to Ismael—no he was wrong.
      And he was wrong again about Isaac.

      Jacob, whose name was literally changed to Israel made numerous prophecies about a literal king who would be the promised seed.
      Of course, Israel would be the woman, or wait, was Mary, the mother of Jesus the woman? Yes, she was, but so was Israel.
      But what is John describing in the Book of Revelation? How can it be Mary? Isn’t she dead? How can it be Israel, they are living in rebellion against God’s law?

      Paul helped clarify the ongoing confusion in Romans and Galatians. He noted that the seed of Abraham was to be a seed as in singular.

      He went on to make the point that there was only the one seed and that is/was the promised Messiah, the Christ.

      Y Trimble? I will suggest why you should tremble. As we draw near to the fateful day of the Lord’s return, you appear to justify blasphemous accusations against your brethren rather than having an honest debate about God’s infallible Word.
      Paul warned Timothy to avoid those who engaged in this type of confrontational dialogue. He pointed out that they weren’t interested in truth but just the argument.

      You also accuse me of following Roman traditions.
      Are you serious? That shows how shallow your research is. How could you read even one article and come away with that conclusion, unless you have your preset opinion about those with whom you are determined to disagree?

      I believe many Catholics will find God’s mercy and enter into eternal life. But the leadership of that corrupt system will answer to the Lord for their countless assaults on God’s Word and the congregations that they ruled over.

      Jesus rebuked the Pharisees but was gentle and loving toward those who listened to those hypocrites.
      I’ve given you too much of my time already.

      I assume you have more insults to throw.
      As you do, please remember the Lord’s admonishment in the ninth commandment.

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